Friday, September 04, 2009

One or Two?

We've talked about this before  --  but now we have more data.

The main question is whether Preston and Carlos Bell are Faires Berrys or whether they, and David, #161, make up a separate 'family' themselves?    I guess a subquestion is whether Preston and Carlos are Berrys, masquerading as Bells, or whether David is a Bell masquerading as a Berry?

Here are the haplotypes of all the folks we'll be comparing -
This genetic distance table shows what at first glance may seem to be two separate families, but at the same time the overlap between them.
Since most of these folks have tested to 37 markers, I've also done a cladogram which more graphically illustrates the question.
You all decide.


Anonymous Anonymous said...

#31 Dennis E. has a pending upgrade to 37 markers. He has a 'known' common ancestor with #161 David J. When #31 Dennis' upgrade is complete, I feel confident that #31 Dennis will be in the 'cluster' on the left of the cladogram along with #161 David J., and #17c Preston & #17p Carlos. I don't have an opinion as to whether #17p Preston and #17c Carlos are truly BERRYs. There's NO evidence, on paper, that they were. But I do think they, and #161 David, along with #31 Dennis are a separate 'cluster' from the ‘center’ of the Faires BERRYs cladogram, or at least separate enough that they constitute a subcluster of the Faires BERRYs.

I think the paper trails for #36 Paul Dean, #110 Edward, #137 Dave, #108 Henry and #167 are justified by their clustering in the center and on the right side of the cladogram. In addition, #114 John and #146 Rod fall onto that right side of the center of the cladogram. The paper trails for #114 and #146, showing immigration from Ireland AFTER the ancestors of #36, #110, #137, #108,#167 were already in America, says – to me -- that the 'genetic' relationship was back in time in Ireland. [The stated Irish origins for #114/#146 does provide support for the ‘oral tradition’ that #36, #110,#137, #108, #167 have Irish origins.] #139 Sam’s paper trail shows presence in America long before #114 and #146 also, but there is no paper trail connection between #139 and #36, #110, #137, #108, #167.

#36, #110, #137, #108,#167 are the men who have a paper trail connecting them – in some way -- to James Berry/Elizabeth Faires. These men form the center of the cladogram (or are on the right of center. The cladogram is showing a distinct pattern of genetic relationships, although #161, #17c, #17p (and presumably #31) seem to be their OWN subcluster. Perhaps the name of this entire BERRY group should be changed to more accurately describe the ‘origins’ of the entire group – the “Irish BERRY Family” would be my suggestion.

You know how much I absolutely LOVE cladograms. I have been thinking about the relationships for this entire group for a long time – keeping their paper trails ALWAYS in mind. The cladogram really re-enforces my thinking.



9:30 PM  
Anonymous Judy bell said...

I don't understand all this bu tI am the niece to 17P Calos and 2nd cousin to 17c Preston. I am the person that started the interest in the test.
Family stories are told that my great grandfather changed out name from to Bell after or during the Civil War. He is our family mystery and unable to trace so we woudl really like to ko wif we re Berry or Bell and how far back the change took place so we can complete our family tree. for those that understand I would appreciate all the help we can get. Anyone that miight have Bell. Park or Berry connetions please help!!!!! We want to know who we are.

Judy Bell
Maybe Berry ????

11:45 PM  
Anonymous Judy Bell said...

Sorry me spelling got crazy> It is late

11:46 PM  
Blogger geoffsn said...

Hi, I realize this is an old post and I don't know if you even still maintain this blog. I was hoping to find out what software you used to generate the cladogram, and if you made it with just the table you showed directly above it. If so, I'd love to find out what it was.


11:03 AM  

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