Monday, July 31, 2006

* * * HIATUS * * *

Well, this is going to be a long one.   We leave this morning for Babcock State Park in Fayette Co., WV, then, beginning Wednesday it's the Appalachian String Band Music Festival at Clifftop, WV, until Sunday, August 6th, when we travel up to Elkins, WV for Augusta Old Time Week followed by the Augusta Festival the weekend of August 11-13.   Actually, Old Time Week is combined with Dance Week and Vocal Week, Betty's choice.

There is some chance that I might be able to get online during that second week.   We'll see.   Might depend on how much fun I'm having.

Just to recap:

Since we invaded Iraq on March 20, 2003:

2578 U.S. service members killed.

18777 U.S. service members wounded.

but the Iraqis must be much better off for our being there, right?

- Iraqi civilian deaths estimated at between 39593 and 44070 in "W"'s War.
Click here to Think Peace

Sunday, July 30, 2006

new member

Robert Leo Berry, #75, our 79th member, ordered Y-DNA37.   Way to go, Robert!

WOW!   I've finally discovered what a Palindrome is (genetically speaking):   "palindromes  -  long stretches of DNA letters that read the same forwards and backwards."   I knew what a palindrome was in its generic sense, but could never understand its usage in the discussions on the DNA lists.

-  -  -  As, in the immortal words of Ann Coulter, "I'm a bony nob, am I?"

Friday, July 28, 2006

more DNA news

Borrowed from my son's blog.

Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation has posted nearly 700 new haplotypes to its Y chromosome database so that it now has data from more than 14,000 men throughout the world.   Unfortunately, not mine, yet.   Well, maybe next time.   The only member of the Berry DNA Project that I have been able to recognize there is Charles Redmon Berry #27, and I have been able to 'mine' some extra markers for him from the SMGF database for our yResults page.   I also believe I recognize a descendant of William Thomas Berry and Maggie Helen Hargis of the 'Benton County Berrys', Roger Dale Berry who would have been born about 1940.   I've tried to contact Roger to ask him to join the Project based on his SMGF results, without success.   Anyone know him?

In addition, SMGF has now opened their mitochondrial database containg data from some 4000+ individuals for searching.   Of course, to search you have to know your markers already if you're looking for yourself.   My Argus Biosciences markers haven't come back yet so I couldn't look to see if I'm in there.   It's real value is for scientific mtDNA studies of different haplogroups or, if you do know your markers, to see the posted genealogy of anyone who may match you.

I've mentioned before, but it's worth repeating:   The SMGF test is free and everyone should participate.   Click here for my rationale.   Click here to participate.

We do have a new member!   Norman Berry, #74, who is our 78th member.   I've not seen his yAncestry listing yet but I have it on reliable authority the he descends from John Maxwell Berry, 1766-1845.   Just whom John Maxwell Berry's descendant might match is a subject of great anticipation.   Again, stay tuned.

Tuesday, July 25, 2006

Project newsy bits

New yAncestrys have been posted for Todd Andrew Berry, #72, and for William Martin Berry, #73, on the DNA Website 'Berry Lines Tested' page.   We are still missing his yAncestry for David Rex Berry, #63, and yAncestry dates for Charles Henry Berry III, #70.   As you know, your yAncestry is simply a listing of your male ancestry, full names and birth and death years.

Thanks to Carol, we've also been able to post new short bios for Keith Thomas Berry, #54, Scott Enfield Berry, #66, John Channell N. Berry, #67, and Michael J. Beery, #69. These are clickable from the 'Berry Lines Tested' page, linked above.

We have another new mtDNA member, Mary Ann Lasley Lewis, #m4.   Mary Ann's maternal G Grandmother was a Berry who lived in Syria, a village in Madison Co., Virginia.   Unfortunately, both Mary Ann and Martha, #m3, have only tested their mitochondrial HVR1 region and their results will therefore likely not be sufficiently discriminating to find any meaningful matches.   They should consider expanding their tests to include the HVR2 region.

Anyone interested in mitochondrial DNA testing should review these previous blog postings:

Sunday, July 23, 2006

DNA news

Jesse's (#21) 37 marker results are now back and guess what!   No one else in the Berry Plain group has more than 25 markers.   I expect that when more have come up to 37 markers or even all have gone to 67 markers, we may see some interesting and helpful family line delineations there.

In news of a more general nature, Family Tree DNA is purchasing DNA-Fingerprint.   See their Press Release.   I'm hopeful that what this means to us is that individual markers that we may be interested in will be more readily and economically available.   DNA-F was a leader and innovator in the development of tests for Y-STRs that were not included in the various packages available from other labs.   My understanding is that these tests for individual markers will continue to be available through FTDNA and, since your Y-DNA is stored with them, no separate extraction fee will be required.

Thursday, July 20, 2006

DNA and horse racing

First, the DNA.   We have a new member!   Martha Louise Hall is member #m3 and is our 76th member.   She is from Sequim, Washington (if I remember correctly, the 'e' is not pronounced) and apparently is in mtDNA haplogroup H with HVR1 differences from the CRS at 16293G, 16362C and 16519C.   Martha ordered her test in June and her results were just returned and she has just now joined our group.   I haven't heard from Martha, yet, but assume her maiden name is Berry and don't know whether we have any of her male kin in the Project or not.

Now, the grandkids.   We went to the races at Charles Town (WV) last night and after several very thoughtful but mostly unfortunate bets, the grandkids had winnings totalling $9.20 to split four ways.   We had a good time but some of the worst food since the memory of man runneth not to the contrary.

Wednesday, July 19, 2006


Still no DNA stuff coming down the pike!   No new members and no new results!   . . . and my scientific son still hasn't sent the OS.   Rats!

So, I guess we'll have to see some more of  'Grandkid's Week'.
Last night was a ball game.   Winchester Royals v. somebody.
In the Valley League.
I'm not a baseball fan so I don't even know what class the Valley League is.
Anyway, somebody won besides the Royals.   Apparently, not being from here, the grandkids weren't all that upset.

Tuesday, July 18, 2006


Well, I've not had much time to think about DNA which is somewhat fortunate since not much is happening on the new members/results front.   I'll have a DNA suggestion at the end of this post, but in the meantime I thought I'd put up a couple of photos.

Here's the cabin where we're hosting 'grandkid's week':

And here are the dogs, anxious to get on with their walk in the woods:

And finally, for those of you who would like to try to understand a bit more about how this DNA stuff works, a recommended DNA tutorial can be found at this link.

Saturday, July 15, 2006

Sorry, more newsy bits

This next week is going to be somewhat hit or miss for blog posts.   This next week is 'Grandkids week'.   All the grandkids, sans parents, show up at the cabin for a week of various activities.   Whatever we can think of (and last through).   During the week we usually go to a musical at the local college (Footloose this year), a baseball game and pizza, the horse races where they figure the odds, we place the bets and they divide their winnings.   We'll hit a steel drum band performance on Friday.   Plus the usual swimming, kayaking, sleeping on the big screened porch in a row of cots a la' Madeline, water gun fights and just hanging out.   I don't know yet whether any or all can stay through next Saturday.   If they can we can go to the 145th anniversary reeeactment of the 1st Battle of Bull Run.   10,000 reenactors.   Whew!   

So, to the DNA:
I've managed to update the TMRCA data table, the combined distances table, and the auto 12, 25, and 37 marker distances tables.

I saw the following information in one of the lists I follow. It had a current date on it but I can't explain the reference to '59 Markers'.   Hopefully, we can read that as '67 Markers'.

FTDNA has suggested that the following are typical times between the time when the kit goes to the lab for processing and the availability of results:
12 Marker Y-DNA - 4 weeks
25 Marker Y-DNA - 6 weeks
37 Marker Y-DNA - 6 weeks
59 Marker Y-DNA - 6 weeks
12 to 25 Marker Y-DNA Upgrade - 4 Weeks
12 to 37 Marker Y-DNA Upgrade - 4 Weeks
25 to 37 Marker Y-DNA Upgrade - 4 Weeks
12 to 59 Marker Y-DNA Upgrade - 6 Weeks
25 to 59 Marker Y-DNA Upgrade - 5 Weeks
37 to 59 Marker Y-DNA Upgrade - 5 Weeks

mtDNA Tests - 5 Weeks

(kits go to the lab in batches every week)

These times are for tests that have a successful outcome from the first run at the lab.   Approximately 85% of the first runs are successful.   The tests are rerun on the other 15% until a good result is obtained.   Unfortunately, each rerun adds two weeks to the process.   When a delay occurs, your sample is being rerun as many times as it takes to achieve a successful result.

Oh, forgot to mention the reason for hit or miss posts.   As though running with the grandkids weren't enough.   The phone lines to the cabin won't support DSL so I'll be sans internet connection, in fact, sans computer.

Friday, July 14, 2006

Project newsy bits

I have determined to no longer support or update the Y-DNA12 distances table.   It is my opinion that 12 markers is not sufficient to prove relatedness, thus the work/reward ratio is not favorable enough to continue it.   All the HTML coding is done by hand and these tables often require that new results be interlined in order to show family relatedness.   Please take my word that this is a very difficult and confusing process.   It is no less so for the 25 and 37 marker tables, but there it seems to me the reward is sufficient to merit the effort.   I will, however, continue to update the 12 marker distance table generated by Dean McGee's Utility, as well as the manually generated 25 and 37 marker distance tables and Dean McGee's 25 marker, 37 marker and Combined distance tables.

Walter Gorton Berry, #14, is upgrading to 37 markers.   Good news for the Augusta/Washington Berrys!

Jim Berry, #7, has ordered the I1a Subgroup Panel including SNPs M170 (or M258 or P19), P38, P40, M227, M253, P30, M21, M72, from Ethnoancestry.

Thursday, July 13, 2006

The Culpeper Co., VA Berrys

I'm not a DNA expert.   I only play one on this blog, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

I mentioned yesterday that new results had just arrived for David Herbert Berry, #57.   David is one of five related Berrys we call the 'Culpeper Co., VA' Berrys, who are shown in AQUA in the Project website.   The other four are Brent Berry, #4, Jonathan Berry, #12, Richard Berry, #16, and Harold Berry, #62.

If there is such a thing as an ancestral hyplotype, I would suggest that David's is it for this family.   He is the only person in the group whose alleles all match at least one other's.   (Possibly Jonathan's also but he has only tested to 25 markers.)   In other words, David has no unique markers not shared by another in the family.

Here are the distances comparisons:

For 25 Markers
For 37 markers
Too bad all five in this family aren't tested to 37 markers.   A cladogram might be interesting.   If I had the OS to run them myself, I'd do a 25 marker cladogram for these folks just for curiosity but I still have to ask Dr. Fitzpatrick for assistance and don't want unduly to impose on her good nature.

Wednesday, July 12, 2006

Project email bounces!

Help!   We need your help.

If any of you who happen to be reading this are these folks, or know a current, good email address for them, please let us know.   Project matters concerning them are going unattended because we can no longer contact them.

Walter Gorton Berry, Jr. was marshmonk*
Harold Brooks Berry was bbd7*
Jonathan & Jayme Berry was buck131*
Carmen Berry Blevins was cberryb*

New results have just arrived for David Herbert Berry, #57.   After I've had a chance to review them I'll try to report on their significance.

Monday, July 10, 2006

Amazing things

A fellow named Tom Glad has written a new utility for mtDNA which produces genetic distance reports with summary tables plus Fluxus diagrams from FTDNA results or from MitoSearch.   How can they come up with these things?   I suppose I should question the underlying theory and resulting algorithms, but I'm always so amazed that I just decide to take it on faith.   The results, so far, look reasonable.

As you will recall, we have only four mtDNA results to date in the Berry Family DNA Project.   Entry of these data into Tom's utility produces these results:

No participants are close enough to one another to be interesting, yet.   But as more of us take advantage of these tests as we try to learn more and more about our forebears, more interesting results will appear.

I'm going to make these results a new page in the Project and update it as new mtDNA results are posted.

My scientific son says he is sending me an OS with which I hope to be able to begin to generate our own fluxus diagrams (cladograms).   I'm hoping sooner rather than later.

Sunday, July 09, 2006

Back from the beach

Sun, fresh fish & dogs.   A week at the beach.   Supposed to be refreshing and re-creating. -- but I always seemed to be tired.   Maybe the daily walks with Phantom & Edn, separately, were contributing.   More difficult at the beach than in town;  soft sand and slanting shore.   Not those wide, flat, hard-packed beaches.

Had my dragon kite up Thursday.   Not enough string.   Had a cool, bucking motion.   Probably a lot like a dragon really flies.   Don't know whether the constant beach wind was too strong or too weak.   Seemed pretty strong to me.

Hatteras Island is a long barrier island so it essentially has two sides, the ocean side and the sound side.   The swimmers, surfers and sunbathers use the ocean side.   The wind surfers, kite boarders, kayakers and waders use the sound side.

More beach stuff can be found at these links:

    meet the barkers

    beach chic

    go fly a kite

MEANWHILE, back on the DNA front, while I was gone we got two new members, Todd Andrew Berry, #72, and William Martin Berry, #73;  new results came back for Robert Bruce Berry, #65 (no matches);  and additional markers were returned for Brent Berry, #4, Jesse Thomas Berry, #21, Keith Boyd Berry, #37, and David Herbert Berry, #57.

Saturday, July 01, 2006

* * * HIATUS * * *

Gone again! but this time it's not a music camp.   This is the Berry family beach week when we go to the the Outer Banks of North Carolina for a little sun and relaxation.   Three of my four kids, all five grandkids and four dogs, and grandad's only job is to grill the fish!   What a deal!

Leaving early this morning.   We'll be back next Sunday, the 9th.

Click here before proceeding further.

      Since we invaded Iraq on March 20, 2003:

         2535 U.S. service members killed,

         18356 U.S. service members wounded,

            in "W"'s War.