Barry results

John's, #158, Y-DNA1-12 results of his Y-DNA25 order came in last night.    No matches with any FTDNA folks.    When his Y-DNA13-25 panel comes in I'll check his haplotype against the entire Project.

Keep our fingers crossed.

Not having much luck getting those new Barry folks to respond to my requests for their yAncestrys.    Of the ten of them, only Joseph, #154, and John, #158, responded.

In case you were wondering

DYF399 recLOH explanation by Rebekah

Referring to this map.

In between P2 and P3 is a copy of DYF399 that is a t type with a g insertion.    I think that is your 27.1t value.    On P1 are two copies of DYF399.    One is a t type and the other a c type.    Those would be your 22t and 22c.    On P1 DYF399 is located between the 188bp copies of DYF408 and the two c type copies of DYS464.

Now the interesting thing is when the alternative configuration is mapped, that is when P1/P2 crossovers happen, the t type with a g insertion and c type are next to each other.    If you then have a doubling of one of those values you are likely to have recLOH from a P1/P2 crossover.    From this I think that DYF399 is a good way to tell how a recLOH happened.

My Birthday Gift to You All

I had suggested a couple of days ago that you all examine the Project Wide Cladogram to see what you might discover   --    and also suggested that you might find that folks were clustered by haplogroup.

Well, I needed something to do while 'Dancing with the Stars' was on so I thought I might just show you what that would look like.

So, here it is -
Happy Birthday.

Observations or Insights?

Perhaps somewhat interesting observations that may have some significance, or not.    Or, perhaps some do and some don't.

Examination of our 25 marker Project Wide Cladogram reveals that the Barry/Berrys family and the Spartanburg Co., SC Berrys are only 4 markers apart, DYS464c, DYS449, DYS458 and DYS390.


The Benton Co. Berrys and the Almondbury Berrys are only 7 markers and one median vector apart, DYS464b, DYS448, DYS385b, DYS390, DYS392, DYS458 and DYS449.


The Augusta/Washington Co. Berry family and the Gum Branch Berrys are not so far apart, 7 markers and 2 median vectors, DYS458, DYS389b, DYS385, DYS390, DYS389b, DYS447 and DYS464a.
What are median vectors, you ask?    According to Forensic Genealogy by Colleen Fitzpatrick, PhD, "median vectors can represent future participants in the study or ancestors whose haplotypes have become extinct."

But not to forget the Rockingham Co. Berrys and the Faires Berrys families only two markers separated in 25, DYS464d and DYS389-1.


Again, the weakness of these comparisons is that they also ignore the fast moving markers in FTDNA's third panel.

Project clad

Continuing the Unassigned Berrys theme I thought it would be a good time to do a cladogram of all the Unassigned Berrys who have tested to 25 markers to determine their relationship, whatever it is, with one another.

The following cladogram is technically not merely a cladogram of Unassigned Berrys.    It does contain all Unassigned Berrys to date, identified by Project ID#, but it also contains the modal haplotype for each of the identified Berry Families designated by appropriate initials so that it represents the relative distances and relationships of each member of the Project who has tested to 25 markers.
Click here to view the cladogram full size.

To give you an idea of the distances, this is the central portion showing the mutations between persons.
I have no special insights into anything the cladogram might show.    Each of you should examine it for yourselves.    However, I do think you will find that folks are generally clustered by haplogroup.

Unassigned Berrys

OK.    This is for all you Unassigned (unmatched) guys.    I've updated the Unassigned Distances page by comparing all the Unassigned Berrys with one another.    The haplotype chart and the Genetic Distance table may be seen here.

You will notice that here and there in the table you see folks that seem to match one another.    I've put those folks adjacent to each other and here is their haplotype table and their genetic distance table.And a genetic distance table showing only the folks being compared.What's wrong with this picture?    Don't they match and are, therefore, related?

Nope, not necessarily.    Let's look at what we've got.    In the first group, ##s 3, 56, 147 and 109, who matches?    #3 matches #147 but no one else.    #56 matches #147 but no one else.    #109 matches #147 but no one else.    What's going on?    Well, the 'match' between #3 and #147 is really only 19/21 and two of the markers #147 is missing from #3's 25 markers are fast movers, DYS458 and DYS449.

#56 and #147 are missing those same fast movers plus DYS576, DYS570 and CDYa&b, all also fast mutating markers.    Same for #109 and #147.    And look at the distance between #56 and #109, 11!

The next group, #10, #121 and #155 is much the same.    The basic problem being that #155 has not tested fast moving markers DYS576, DYS570 and CDYa&b plus DYS459a&b.

The last group, #70 and #144, are our same old nemesis, essentially a 12 marker match.    Maybe, maybe not.

What's the answer?    More markers.    It may well be that one or more of the matches are real.    Only more markers will tell.

Six Years . . . . and counting.

     In our country's longest war   - - -    we invaded Iraq on March 20, 2003

               4,260 U.S. service members have been killed,

                    31,102 U.S. service members have been wounded, in

                         "W"'s War.


                            "When a man don’t use good judgment it’s the innocent who pays"

                                                                                                                             -- Echo Mountain

Click here to Think Peace

Quick Results!

Bill, #73, effectively ordered his Y-Refine12to37 upgrade on February 18 (he actually ordered on Feb 12 but that's a Thursday and his sample didn't go to the lab till the next Wednesday, the 18th) and his results came back today.    Four weeks!    Pretty good.    As mentioned then, Bill had no matches and more markers don't generate any for him, but -- when his match does come in he'll know it for sure.
P.S. - POSTED AT 8:45 PM
Carol reminds me of our hope that Bill's failure to match at 12 markers was a 'false negative'.    Apparently, not so.    Can't recall if I've yet seen a 'false negative' 12 marker mismatch, but it's certainly possible.

Those Faires Berrys again

We have a couple new members of the Faires Berry family so it seemed like a good time to review their numbers.

First, as usual, their allele numbers -From these few samples it is difficult to determine which may represent the family haplotype particularly in view of the disagreement of results at DYS 576.    A clearer view may be seen here.

Their table of genetic distances from one another -
And their table of Time to Most Recent Common Ancestor. [Caveat:   Consider these estimates with care.    At best they represent a 75% probability of a common ancestor within the given time range which, of course, necessarily includes the 25% possibility of no common ancestor within that time frame]
And now the gravy.     The 25 and 37 marker cladograms for this family. From this, still meager, sample of results Paul, #36, and Ted, #137, appear to have the inside track for family haplotype.

Merged

Well, all those new Berry/Barry/Barrie folks are merged, posted and compared.    Turns out there were really only nine of them, 'us' now, plus one new order.

Unfortunately, five of the nine have only 12 markers tested   (hard to know if any matches are real).    One has tested 37 markers and three have tested 67 markers.    The new order is for 25 markers.

I sent 'Welcome to the Project' emails to all last night, asking for their yAncestry, but haven't had any responses . . . . . . . yet.

These folks are all posted to the Project website, Participant ##s 149 thru 158, and I've run a genetic distance table which you can see by clicking this image -Dale, #156, is a Berry Plain Berry and has been included with that family.

New members - WHOLESALE!

We started the Berry Family DNA Project in 2003 and it has always been a burr under my saddle that in about May 2005, almost two years after our 'Berry Project' had gotten underway and at a time when we already had 40 participants, FTDNA permitted WorldFamilies to start a 'Barry Project' with the same surnames.    There are 14 folks in that group, three of whom also belong to ours.    I compared the haplotypes of that group with our Project and one of them matches our Berry Plain Berry Family.    I pushed on FTDNA a little to get a way to contact those folks to invite them to also join our group.    My 'fall back' position was going to be to just ask for the email address of the Berry Plain guy to invite him.

FTDNA has just informed me that they are going to merge that group into ours!

Whup!    Here they are.   Guess I'll have to get busy.

English Colony Berrys

FTDNA returned the balance of Stephen's, #140, Y-DNA37 order and he seems to be most likely an English Colony Berry.    Here's the English Colony yResults table.    From what we can see here, Keith, #107, or Alan, #112, so far seem to represent the family haplotype -You may see the Project Family yResults table by clicking this line.

This genetic distance table shows why I say 'most likely'.    Stephen's distances are marginal to everyone except Keith, who, perhaps fortunately, may represent the family haplotype -
Here's the obligatory TMRCA -
So let's try a couple of cladograms.    You'll recall that to generate a cladogram you must compare the same markers from each haplotype.    Our first cladogram compares all 30 markers the six members of this family have in common.
We'll also take a look at the four members of the family who can compare all 37 markers.It might be somewhat interesting if Lawrence and Keith also had the faster moving markers DYS576 and 570, and CDYa & b to compare.

Clicking here will display the English Colony Berrys yAncestry.    Could Keith's 1731-1800/10 John Berry be the same person as Stephen's c1740-c1810 John Berry?

Regulatin' Genes

A bit of news

Keith, #54, has ordered his Y-Refine37to67 upgrade.    His sample will stay (wherever) until it's shipped to the lab Wednesday evening.    Anyone who wants to be in the same batch can order anytime until mid-afternoon Wednesday.    After that you will wait another week until the next batch goes out the following Wednesday.

Y-DNA13-25 results arrived and have been posted for Richard, #144.    In addition, Y-DNA1-12 and Y-DNA13-25 test results have come in and have been posted for John, #140

Today's pipeline

This is what we can expect to see -

SMGF Report

I just realized that I've never reported on my survey of the new SMGF update.    I reviewed all 29 known Berry, Barry,Beery,Biery results for additional markers.    None.

Two of our members, Ken, #80, and Patrick, #60, got new results when they had none before.    Ken, 31 markers, and Patrick, 43 markers.    Only one new Berry showed up, Patrick's brother, David, now #143, who also received all 43 markers that SMGF tests.

So now there are 32 of us with SMGF results.

SMGF Barrys

We have a Barry family that I've just sort of ignored for a little while but finally decided that they also deserve to be designated as such.    I think that the reason that I've ignored them is that we have no way to contact either of them since they are both SMGF testers.    We do know almost everything else about them, though.    Their haplotypes and their yAncestry.

They appear to be father and son with a mutation between them at DYS447.

Hookey

After that little flurry of activity we apparently have no new DNA news so I thought I'd catch up on a couple of newsy bits.

As this winter's pattern has gone, we're not a part of the latest East Coast Snowstorm.    We may have about half an inch or so, but that's all.    I would venture to say that for the entire winter we've had a total of less than an inch of snow.    We seem to be in a little island that winter storms are missing.    I probably shouldn't be mentioning it yet because we've had big March snow storms before.

I expect you didn't even notice but I played hookey Saturday and Betty and I and the dogs drove to Frametown, WV, about a 4 1/2 hour drive, to help an old fiddler friend celebrate his birthday.

Here's a bunch of us having fun.    That's Ralph, the birthday boy, with his back to the window.
We drove back home Saturday evening so as not to get trapped by the predicted Winter Storm.